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Danielle Liso: hello, and welcome to the card cast a podcast of the University of Florida Center for autism and related disabilities.

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Danielle Liso: i'm your host Danielle de so assistant director at the Center the mission of the US card cast is to share with our listeners relevant information about who we are and what we do and what we can do to help you.

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Danielle Liso: Over the course of our podcast series, we will be talking with members of our own staff, as well as our constituents and their families, service providers and researchers who are doing groundbreaking work in the field of autism.

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Danielle Liso: We also hope to give you a fuller picture and a better understanding of autism spectrum disorder and related disabilities, such as dual sensory impairments and developmental disabilities with sensory impairments, thank you for joining us.

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Danielle Liso: You may have had the pleasure of listening to our recent card cast, with no appalling are the director and founder of Camp living wonders in Atlanta Georgia.

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Danielle Liso: In this card cast, we will continue our conversation about religion and autism with another special guest Reverend Melissa pisco pastor at celebration united Methodist church in gainesville welcome Melissa we're so glad you could join us.

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Danielle Liso: i'm here today with Melissa pisco welcome Melissa thanks for joining us.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Thanks Danielle glad to be here.

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Danielle Liso: If you could introduce yourself tell us your name the name of your organization your role at the organization and where it's located.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: My name is Reverend Melissa pisco and I serve as pastor at celebration united Methodist church it's on the southwest corner town of gainesville and and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: We are part of the united Methodist denomination so and i've been there for just about seven years.

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Danielle Liso: That celebration offer any specific programs for individuals with disabilities who want to join your congregation.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: yeah actually we do a couple years ago, we adopted a new vision statement.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And, and that really began to shape all the ministries that we did we wanted to have intentional ministries that we're going to be safe and welcoming for all people and also ministries that.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: kind of brought forth health both not only spiritually but physically and emotionally.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: We understand that that is really what brings true health for someone is all three of those together, and so, with that in mind and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: We began to revamp our ministries, we began with our Sunday school classes, and so we actually brought card in to do some training with our teachers our Sunday school teachers.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: To help our teachers better understand neuro diversity and also to.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Get familiar with a variety of different accommodations that could be made in the classroom.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And we began to bring in things like visual timers and visual cue cards, we made sure to have a variety of different types of seats available for the children.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And, and so we just began to do some of that work we change the curriculum as well, so that it was more of a Montessori style curriculum, so it could be child lead and directed based on their interests and their passions and and so all of that was designed to help us facilitate a safe.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: and welcoming space for children.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: We also trained all of our leaders outside of the Sunday school classroom to so that they would be also aware of, you know how do we manage.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: stemming or like what do we do when a child starts to stem what do we do when a child starts to have a meltdown and how do we handle that with love and compassion and again creating safe space for that.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: That led into.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: adding a special worship service also designed so that families could worship together and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: If, and we have sensory bags available at that, where the sensory bags are available at all the worship services, but we brought in sensory bags we brought in, you know fidget blankets.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Again we just have we try to have as many resources available so as soon as a family walks in they know oh there's something that's going to.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: help our family have a very positive experience in in worship, so we have all of those things available as well at all the worship services, but that four o'clock worship service is designed where there's no sermon and it's more of a message it's interactive.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: We are very careful about not using.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Any PowerPoint that's very stimulating you know we just try to be very mindful of what kind of sensory input we're putting out there.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: As far as sound and visuals go at the four o'clock service so so it's designed again to be a safe place and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: It is not uncommon for me to get interrupted in the middle of my teaching on that and that's fine I love that we we embrace it, you know.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: I learned very quickly actually how much metaphor, we use in the church and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Our friends that take things very literally are constantly showing me and teaching me how we need to look at some of the language we use in the Church, because we use so much metaphor and, quite frankly, some of it's terrifying I mean really and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Now, when you think about drinking the let's say the blood of Christ for holy communion that's just terrifying you know and so.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: trying to find ways of teaching this spiritual truths with language and imagery that is going to be.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: accessible for for all people so Those are some of the things that we've done as far as our worship goes and our Sunday school goes and and we've also began to do some outreach ministries, we provide respite nights which are.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Free for families to come we have on site volunteers that are nurses occupational therapists speech therapist so that we have a plethora of.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: kind of medical folks on site to care for the kids in addition to church volunteers, we have other groups in town, now that have begun to work with us on that some of us, students and extraordinary joy.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And we we do that, to give parents and caregivers just a little bit of time off and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: So they can go and enjoy an evening out while we provide some free childcare and I think one of the things that has made this unique, if I understand it, as I talked with families as we invite the siblings to come to so the parents really can have a full.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Night off they don't have to find different caregivers for.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Their child with disabilities and the children who don't have disabilities, so they all can come together and that's been that's been a really good thing, and perhaps one of our biggest undertakings has been our new playground.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: But yeah credible.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: yeah the fully accessible playground.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And so, which is only half done phase one is done, we opened it this past February February of 2021.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And, and so it's a Community playground we're trying to help get word out about that, because I think some people still think it's a church playground, but it's it's open for the Community.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And and we're just really committed again that's that's physical wellness it's emotional wellness playing is such an important part of development and we just really believe strongly in side by side play.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Not separate play not separate Sunday schools not separate anything but i'm kind of full integration into the the faith community and so we're always seeking ways to.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: enhance that and further that along the way, so we, we still have a lot more i'm sure we can do, but i'm just really thrilled to be part of a faith Community that's so committed to to being safe and welcoming for all people.

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Danielle Liso: And I think that actually leads me right into my next question which is you talked about safety and care and being welcoming and I have been to your.

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Danielle Liso: church and I can speak specifically to that, I think, as soon as you walk in people will know that people of all types and abilities and ages and interests are welcome there.

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Danielle Liso: there's a place to feel comfortable there's a place to go if you don't feel comfortable there are ways to feel more comfortable and more engaged, so you can really be a member of the Community, and not just a member of the audience, so to speak.

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Danielle Liso: But when you think about Methodist practice in general and and the messages that your spiritual Community tries to share and believes in How does that relate to supporting individuals with disabilities.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: um.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: So, are you asking that like on the greater the greater church level is that how you mean that question.

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Danielle Liso: yeah so How does that match up with.

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Danielle Liso: How does supporting people with disabilities match up with that your spiritual practices and guidelines.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: yeah well, so you know i'm sure that we won't be the first time, or the first example.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Of we are living into practicing what we preach and so I think you know as a denomination we have our book of polity and and doctrine and what have you and we have very clear statements in there about not discriminating against individuals with disability and and and and I think that.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: You know churches in our Community certainly have been.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Consistent with following Ada guidelines for building accessibility and things of that sort this whole idea of being a worshipping community that has some.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: variety of combinations and flexibility and how we do programming and how we do worship and children and youth ministries adult ministries and that sort of thing I think that's.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: we've got some room to be growing in that so i'm actually really thankful i've recently been invited to help our Conference.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Be more intentional and that and so we've got a team now in Florida.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: That works on disability ministries and part of our work is equipping local Churches and so we go into we make ourselves available to go into local Churches to.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Help churches learn about things like auditory processing like autism, and what does ADHD maybe look like in a Sunday school setting, what are the best ways that we come alongside children and adults to help them be successful in in in our setting, so I feel like.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: On paper.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: We definitely have those statements, in practice, I think we are, we are growing into it and i'm very, very.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: glad to see that churches are asking these questions and looking for intentional ways i'm i'm really thrilled I get emails all the time now about well you know we can we want to ask about hearing impaired ministry, or we want to ask about.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: sensory, how do we, how are we more intentional around sensory integration in this particular program that we do, or what have you, so it is really exciting to see churches.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: kind of stepping up and asking and learning and I think they're pleasantly surprised that it doesn't take a lot it doesn't take a lot of money it doesn't take a lot of.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Effort even it just takes a heart and a willingness and mindfulness it to be intentional to say Oh, we can do this it's not it's not that hard it's just that we have to be aware of the need, and then be willing to make some of the changes that that make it more accessible.

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Danielle Liso: I think that's great advice to you know any organization that's trying to become more.

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Danielle Liso: aware and more supportive of disability communities, because it can be intimidating to have to take on what can be what can feel like a really big project to try to understand all disabilities and needs of all.

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Danielle Liso: People in addition to trying to provide support to.

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Danielle Liso: For the needs of the regular congregation as well, so I think it's an important message to know that it really just just take intention and heart, as you said.

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Danielle Liso: What about on the other side of the coin.

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Danielle Liso: What can the families of individuals with disabilities do to make their religious experience more meaningful and successful when they come to celebration or wherever they choose to worship.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: yeah well you know I can only speak for myself and I like to seem I like to believe that i'm an active learner, and so I tried to tell families, please don't hesitate, let me know what you need and I don't know what I don't know and and so.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: You know I hate I hate to kind of put put a burden on any family that already is trying to navigate you know through school systems and medical systems and all these other systems, I mean I know myself as a parent of a child, with disabilities that.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: You know, sometimes i'm going into a new setting and i'm having to say okay here's.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: here's what my child needs, you know and what have you but truthfully.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: We, for example, we had a respite night where our family came in and and the mom had done one of those get to know me books.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: That this particular child was coming with a syndrome that we had never.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: personally had there before it was so helpful, you know, to have one of these like this is me books, where it shared with us what this child's condition was what her strengths were what she enjoyed.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: What were her triggers What should we do best if she were triggered and and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And and kind of what supports she needed and it was it took us, you know, two minutes to read through the the book to pass it around.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: to everybody that would be working with her that night, so that we all knew what was expected and I think that you know.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: If you're coming into a faith community, and you have something like that.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Well, we we've gone ahead and put it on to our registration process now i've we asked these clowns directly on our Sunday school registration and directly on our vacation Bible school registration, we asked these things like what is your child.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: enjoy what are their challenges as far as their triggers and how can we help them be successful, but we also have this very blanket like What else do we need to know, in other words we're not pretending we know everything, so I think anytime a parent can or garden.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And just kind of give a quick here's here's what's best or here's what works best.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: That would everything, and you know I think with any other.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Like with any institution sometimes you get into these ruts where you do things just because it's the way you've always done them, but it doesn't mean that you're not willing to do it differently it's just you don't know what needs to be done differently.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Right and so to be able to say.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: You know if you.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: If if you could consider this accommodation that would be very, very helpful um you know.

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Danielle Liso: Thank you for that, thank you for that plug for the all about me book.

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Danielle Liso: Because we we recommend them a lot and we tend to think about them as useful tools for school right, so if.

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Danielle Liso: your child is starting at a new school or having a new teacher or even a new therapist and so forth, but it makes perfect sense.

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Danielle Liso: To introduce your child to any new supportive Community like the church family to say here's you know here's the cheat sheet.

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Danielle Liso: Of the things that you need to know about me and it makes the family feel better that.

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Danielle Liso: You know that we get to know their child quickly and the most important things to know, and it makes the supportive Community like your church.

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Danielle Liso: feel better because they feel like they have a starting place and Larry said you don't know what you don't know and people who are i'd much rather have a teacher or.

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Danielle Liso: A Community Member who says, I don't really know the answer but i'm willing to learn, or I don't really know what to do here, but i'm willing to learn, and so I think that's a perfect example of how to.

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Danielle Liso: You know how to have parents advocate.

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Danielle Liso: For the needs of their kids in a very you know user friendly way.

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Danielle Liso: What about the Community community at large.

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Danielle Liso: Do you think that the community at large, can provide support to celebration.

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Danielle Liso: and other.

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Danielle Liso: Religious organizations, how can we support your efforts to meet the needs of these individuals.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Well, you know i'm kind of a big fan of everybody, working together and not reinventing the wheel and so.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: I think that, for example, I it's been wonderful to kind of have this mutual relationship with card over the years, where we've tried to provide some space for card to have events and card has invited us to.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: To go ahead and table at events and has invited us to.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Make connections with other families in the Community and so that's just been really, really helpful when when we see each other as partners versus competition or versus you know other.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And so um you know I just feel like it whenever we can make space for each other.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And I know it can get tricky sometimes because of the whole like church state stuff it can sometimes get tricky but we're really talking about helping.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Individuals grow and become and be the best they can be no matter what your faith tradition is so this isn't necessarily just about Christianity, this is just about like.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: spiritual well being you know, and so I think anytime that the church can say, well, we want to be a space that talks to.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: suicide, for example, among children and adults with disabilities right so, but now we're going to reach out and connect with the mental health community and say what can we do together.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: To to address this issue, and I think that when we can recognize that our spiritual well being is part of being well.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: And, in part, of being whole and and an outside organizations are willing to make room for faith communities of any kind to be present in the conversation and the dialogue.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: It will make our Community stronger and so, so I think anytime that we can work together and then we're creating a better space for all of our neighbors to be their best so that you know and i'll just give a very.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: i'll just go ahead and give a plug that you were looking for support partners for the playground, you know for phase two and.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: This really is a Community playground for example we're a small congregation this playground is incredibly expensive to build but we're really committed to doing it, whether it takes us a year or five years, and so I think that.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Finding other places where we can partner together is is going to help again to help all of us so.

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Danielle Liso: I think you use the term making space for each other, several times and I love that term because you can make space physically for someone like i'm helping you, with your playground effort, which is a beautiful effort and, as you said, a Community effort.

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Danielle Liso: that's a physical space you offered us the opportunity to have our arts night our annual arts night at your.

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Danielle Liso: At your facility, a couple of years ago, and that was an incredible way of us being able to collaborate together, but I also think just making space to listen to each other as you've been alluding to this whole time which is.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: You know if I know of your needs, I will provide for them if I don't know of them, please tell me what they are.

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Danielle Liso: Because I will make space to listen to them and try to.

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Danielle Liso: To try to accommodate that and then sharing that message with other churches and other organizations to say here's how we have gone about taking on this task.

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Danielle Liso: And would you make space to listen to our story about how we have done that, and perhaps put some thought into how your own organization could do the same.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: yeah absolutely yeah absolutely listening learning and collaboration so important mm hmm.

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Danielle Liso: I love that Thank you so much we're so glad to have Reverend Melissa pisco with us today.

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Danielle Liso: We hope that you will join us again for our next card cast, and we will be putting on our webpage when we post this card cast information.

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Danielle Liso: about the celebration united Methodist church playground, so that if you are interested in providing any type of support.

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Danielle Liso: We know they would be truly grateful for that and we want to be able to provide the support to them, wherever we can because they have also provided support to us in the past and it's just a great it's just a great project it's a great thing to be able to say we have in our Community.

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Danielle Liso: Is an inclusive playground.

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Danielle Liso: Thank you so much.

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Rev. Melissa Pisco: Thanks Daniel.

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Danielle Liso: This has been a US card cast please visit us next time when we will have another interview with an interesting group of people i'm your host Danielle Lisa and we will see you next time.